[patch] New druid models for cat and bear forms

[Scyzor]

Well, for the models part, I have spotted quite a few differences other than the horns or the fur between alliance and horde. The teeth, the chains. All those couldn't have been helmets or shirts. I don't think it works that way. And even if it did, why would they store basic models anyway ? Plus, World of Warcraft is pretty much the most basic mmorpg out there so try thinking shallower

I finished working on the patch quite a while ago. It just needs the testing. I lack the RAM and the time of running both a server and a client. Thanks a billion for volunteering. I haven't been getting any replies in a while. You saved me

[Unkle Nuke]

I just hate that so much good code has died due to lack of response/interest.

It's as if people think you developers will keep cranking out code like machines, assuming they even think about it at all. There is an emotional investment in the work you do, and to feel it is ignored and unappreciated simply hurts. There's been plenty of potentially great contributors who just stopped and left because they could not bear their hard work being treated so callously.

You've done good work and it deserves to be noticed and supported loudly, not just by lurkers grabbing the code and hiding it away in their repos with no feedback or comment.

Did you happen to push this patch to a Github repository? If you do not have one, I highly recommend you do so to simplify updating your work and allowing testers to more easily grab those updates for merging into their cores. Github repositories are free of cost for public open source code projects.

[DaViper]

Well, for the models part, I have spotted quite a few differences other than the horns or the fur between alliance and horde. The teeth, the chains. All those couldn't have been helmets or shirts. I don't think it works that way. And even if it did, why would they store basic models anyway ? Plus, World of Warcraft is pretty much the most basic mmorpg out there so try thinking shallower

I finished working on the patch quite a while ago. It just needs the testing. I lack the RAM and the time of running both a server and a client. Thanks a billion for volunteering. I haven't been getting any replies in a while. You saved me

Your right! and from what I've seen playing around with the model viewers it looks like Curious Lab's Poser setup...ie: a basic dummy manikin and with the hair face and other changes you do it stores them as props just like the items of armor and what not...so I would assume that the druid forms are the same... is that shalloow enough to think blizzard uses other ppls tech to acheive their end result?

[Scyzor]

@UnkleNuke: I would have done this on git only if it had been longer and more complex. I don't think it's worth it. However if it would help testers, I'd gladly do that

@DaViper: I apologize but I couldn't get your point.

I'm redoing the patch for the latest rev as soon as I get along with git

[Scyzor]

Patch updated to support [10144]. First post updated.

[DaViper]

Play around with Poser4 and you understand

[Unkle Nuke]

I think you misunderstood me, gs94.

I meant these different parts that make the druid forms racially different are like helms and shirts, not that they literally are such item types.

This is what DaViper meant. You have a basic, plain model, no hair, face, markings...a blank dummy. Everything you choose to customize or equip your character is actually just a collection of parts that are applied to the model separately... facial features, hair style, and so forth.

My thought was that the druid forms are the same way. Find all the parts and their IDs and then create code that puts all the right pieces together. Whether this needs a database method or hard-coding depends on greater experience than mine.

[Scyzor]

I've used a model viewer. It showed the character models with customization (facial hair, skin colour, etc). It didn't show any customization for the druid models except the texture (skin colour). So I don't think it's as you say. Try this and you'll understand.

[Unkle Nuke]

You can't rely on a third-party app like WoWModelviewer, which I have used quite a bit, to uncover the methods for rendering used by the client itself. It was not designed with for any purpose other than to make pretty renderings for you to admire outside the game. As such, anything you think you might learn from it for application to this patch would be dubious, at best.

It's a useful tool for taking a look at the game's assets, but I don't believe it's the definitive answer to in-game model rendering.

Take a look at the Create Character screen in the client. As you choose things like facial features, hair style, and facial hair or piercings, you'll notice only those parts change, not the entire model. That's because they are stored as separate parts that are applied to the main model. Even skin color and hair color are stored as textures that are applied individually.

From a design standpoint, it would make little sense to have complete, full models for every possible variation. You'd then be stuck with hundreds of them that consume a great deal of storage capacity and require unnecessary code to swap out those models every time you can't make up your mind while making a character or paid a visit to the barbershop.

Your answers are in the DBC files and APIs. WoWwiki has very good documentation on many of the client APIs.

[Scyzor]

WoWModelViewer displays the filenames. If it had added any pieces of mesh to the model it would have indicated that. And yes, I can rely on it since there's no other proper app to use.

MyWarcraftStudio (same developer as WMV) crashes on opening M2, so I could just use it for DBCs. The only DBC file I found relevant was BarberShopStyle.dbc which I knew already.

Also, MyWarcraftStudio lists files inside MPQs. Character meshes had cosmetics meshes and skins in the same directory. Druid models didn't. Please look into it before posting again.

As for efficiency, WoW meshes are very very low detailed they don't cost a dime on processor time or RAM, so don't count that into the situation. Plus, WoW is already about 9GB, would they do the horns and piercings as separate models just to not create one more tiny horde bear model ?

[Unkle Nuke]

Very well, good sir. You are the developer of this patch and I will bow to your greater wisdom.

Still, this is the most stimulating discussion I've had around here in a long time!

[Scyzor]

Heh no wisdom here. Just tools and code. Could you give my code a shot anyway ? It's updated to [10148] now.

[Unkle Nuke]

Been trying work it in, but my activities lately have been limited to bed rest and watching too much television. I caught a bug that has left me feeling far worse than miserable.

Hopefully, I'll be feeling up to sitting here for hours and building my new server core by the weekend.

[Scyzor]

I actually I got my barbershop patch tested on another thread. And since that was the problem, I don't think I need more testing. You can enjoy your bug

[DaemonCantor]

Good luck gs94!...I won't be useing it.

[Unkle Nuke]

One positive response for your Barbershop Tauren Skintone patch in the under review section does not constitute "testing".

This still needs testing on a wide variety of servers, across multiple OS platforms, before you can say with any certitude that it "works".

Your haste to push this through is not inspiring a great deal of confidence on my part.

[Scyzor]

@DaemonCantor: You won't be using it why ?

@UnkleNuke: You have no idea how simple this patch is. Of course it has to be pushed upstream ASAP. If it's tested once, it works, that's it. Take a look at the code.

The testing you're talking about is done for patches involving optimization and pointers and stuff. I just replicated code on mine.

[DaemonCantor]

gs94, I see several reasons, 1) untested and unsafe 2) wrong to hard code models to skins creates a unsafe enviroment 3) your attitude which makes me think something was forced and the patch isn't right 4) You could be the best programmer in the world but learning to use the right tools and preplanning(with C++ is a requirement) stilldoesn't get it done right,even the the Core Developers talk to others before implimenting something. Communication is the key to getting any work done, I have a group of people I deal with and they help me in all sorts of ways BTW you have been dealing with 2 of my associates here.

I hope thats enough reason for you

[Scyzor]

1) The barbershop patch doesn't have anything that's hardcoded and it has been tested once.

2) I think hardcoding is wrong too, but I can't find another way. No one should use the druid cosmetics patch.

3) My attitude doesn't change anything, I'm just helping you know. If you guys don't want it, just give me negative replies, I don't mind. The fact that none of the core developers replied to me in a month's time is really getting on my nerves.

4) I have nobody to talk to, I'm new here, this is my first patch.

As for the druid patch, I've said on the first page of this thread that I want it deleted. I got no reply. I keep on updating it just because someone replied, so I thought they might want to test it.

Thank you for your feedback.

[Unkle Nuke]

gs94, I do not wish for you to become discouraged. It can take a very long time before the core devs will begin to review your patch.

Generally, something that is considered very crucial, like fixes to basic functionality, are given greater priority. This would include things like the cameras and vmaps fixes.

Cosmetic fixes, or "eye candy", usually tend to have the lowest priority. To ensure your patch does receive timely review, one of the most strict requirements is to have proper testing. This means having several users, across both main platforms, to use your patch with no reported errors.

I know your skintone patch is simple, but MaNGOS is very complex, such that even simple changes can have unanticipated consequences. To have a single user give a positive review is indeed a good thing, but you may need several more of these. The more user feedback you have, the stronger your standing will be when your work is reviewed.

As for the Druid Cosmetics patch, I would hope you will continue work and research. There may yet come a time when it will be ready for submission for review. Open development means having debate and disagreement, but it also means getting help and insight to refine your work. Bad criticism can be just as beneficial if it is given with reason. It is up to you whether or not you use it to learn.

[Scyzor]

You are very right about the low priority thing. I'll try getting some of my friends into the testing so that devs would only have to push it upstream.