Mangos have been repacked for commercial sales in China!

[rogermangos]

As stated above, if you could read chinese, here is the link with photo advertisement.

Does it violate mangos's GPL?

[bosit]

Of course it does (if it's using the Mangos source). It's also very illegal either way.

[rogermangos]

Well, it's obvious, but will mangos take any action against it? afterall, it's an international legal affair, could be very complicated and ineffective while proceeding.

[wyy007cn]

20000RMB per year

about 3000USD per year

svn://svn.mgcore.com

so sorry for chinese

[imblizzspy]

I doubt anything could be done about it. It's China after all.

[apok69]

Well they seem supposedly support the 3.2.2 client

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=mgcore.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&history_state0=

[Patman128]

If someone is going to pay that much for something they can get for free, I don't see them having much success with their server anyway.

[rogermangos]

Well they seem supposedly support the 3.2.2 client

http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=mgcore.com&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&history_state0=

lol, That's brilliant way to read foreign site. The translation is catastrophic.

I dont think 3.2.2 is playable, even client can connect, quests, spell and scripts or some core function are still very incomplete.

[NickoNiklas]

The thing that makes me laugh is how they try to make it sound like they have all the rights for the server.

They say it's no "Pirated copy", and there are restictions like you can only install it on one server,

you are only allowed to have a set numbers of accounts.

And they see it as an "emulator".

But that's the google translator,

but I have found it to be quite useful sometimes,

not that good on the grammar, but good enough.

I really hope noone purchases their services.

Not that hard to google after "Mangos",

second answer from google is to getmangos.eu.

And I really hope,

if blizzard takes any actions against those sites,

Mangos does not suffer from it.

But from what I understand,

they try to make it sound like they have been given the rights to sell it from mgcore.com,

and mgcore.com compiles the source from git, and supplies dbc and map files with that.

Damn, I have really learned a lot today. Didn't even know mgcore.com or similar existed.

It's like I googled myself into knowledge, again...

[DasBlub]

actually i don't have any mercy with those who would pay for it. if they pay for it they'll try to make money with their server. and they should know that it's illegal.

and if we don't do anything on the legal way (e.g. pressing charges against them [can i write that in english?^^]) *someone* could do a DDoS attack at their webpages...

[NickoNiklas]

actually i don't have any mercy with those who would pay for it. if they pay for it they'll try to make money with their server. and they should know that it's illegal.

and if we don't do anything on the legal way (e.g. pressing charges against them [can i write that in english?^^]) *someone* could do a DDoS attack at their webpages...

Well, since they uses mangos as an "emulator" (according to them),

why not just inform blizzard about it.

And inform blizzard that mangos is not to be used as an emulator,

and they are breaking gpl and all that.

Shouldn't take long until they have a 100 lawyers on their necks.

Don't worry, I won't contact blizzard. Not my place to do that.

But a DDoS attac,

I don't support that option at all.

Better to do things the legal way,

even if we don't like what they are doing.

As they say,

"violence breeds violence",

and "the pen is mightier than the sword".

[The_Game_Master]

3k/year for a opensource project? wtf? What a nerve!

[DasBlub]

NickoNiklas: i agree with you, legal way is better. the ddos part was more like a joke

[rogermangos]

The thing that makes me laugh is how they try to make it sound like they have all the rights for the server.

They say it's no "Pirated copy", and there are restictions like you can only install it on one server,

you are only allowed to have a set numbers of accounts.

And they see it as an "emulator".

But that's the google translator,

but I have found it to be quite useful sometimes,

not that good on the grammar, but good enough.

I really hope noone purchases their services.

Not that hard to google after "Mangos",

second answer from google is to getmangos.eu.

And I really hope,

if blizzard takes any actions against those sites,

Mangos does not suffer from it.

But from what I understand,

they try to make it sound like they have been given the rights to sell it from mgcore.com,

and mgcore.com compiles the source from git, and supplies dbc and map files with that.

Damn, I have really learned a lot today. Didn't even know mgcore.com or similar existed.

It's like I googled myself into knowledge, again...

Ya, you basically interpreted it correctly.

Though mangos is under GPL and can be retrieved for free, however, there are large portion of Chinese could not read or not proficient in English, Most of them dont even know how to use git to get mangos, from there, mgcore just took that advantage to provide Chinese copy and gain profit. Further more, Chinese client is a bit different from enUS and Europe version, it has been altered by agent to add more security measures, so, pure mangos cant be used for chinese version to connect, some modification has to be done. Most ppl simply dont have sufficient knowledge to do that.

[Skirnir]

Selling GPL OpenSourceSoftware is not illegal. GPL and not even the FreeSoftwareFoundation prevent this: Read more. Of course you have to behave by the rules of GPL, providing source code etc.

So beside the fact that they are breaking the "mangos users honor codex" not to sell the code and mangos EULA they can't be judged for selling. First you have to buy the Software to see if they share the part of the source code which is under GPL.

Hosting a public server of course is a violation against heavy snowstorms EULA and maybe some laws (which needs to be checked for the Chinese case). And since EULAs are no laws and in such way rather weak, you'll have to get a Chinese lawyer ... quite an expensive plan with a unsure ending.

my thoughts

Skir.

[crashuncle]

What Skirnir said is correct so far, it will be hard to do something against them. Such things happen often especially open source projects are a welcome meal for such persons. If you want to prevent that then the only way is to go closed source sadly.

[cryoman]

But if you are thinking...Linux is free - right? ...but based on linux, many editions cost a lot of money! only because some company made few modification on that software...

So this will be also the story of Mangos as i see...it is build free, but because somebody created a web frontand few incore modification, they will sell it! ..interesting ideea!

[hunuza]

Selling GPL OpenSourceSoftware is not illegal. GPL and not even the FreeSoftwareFoundation prevent this: Read more. Of course you have to behave by the rules of GPL, providing source code etc.

Charging money for it is not illegal, that's true. But the restrictions (only usable on one server etc) described by NickoNiklas definitely are.

They cannot even forbid you to sell the software you bought again (because it is free).

And I highly doubt that they provide source codes...

I don't know whether they do it but they also need to indicate that their software is licensed under the GPL and that every user has rights obtained by the GPL...

[Skirnir]

Charging money for it is not illegal, that's true. But the restrictions (only usable on one server etc) described by NickoNiklas definitely are.

Hm I'm not sure. If you for instance buy RedHat Linux afaik you receive a serial, code to use the version of the OS on one PC, just like any Windows OS, but still Red Hat delivers a lot of GPL copyrighted software. I haven't ever cared in how Red Hat does so, but I think there is somehow a way. A way which could also be used by the Chinese.

They cannot even forbid you to sell the software you bought again (because it is free).

Yes definitely. But just one little hint, even worlds famous software giant Microsoft has sold Windows Vista dvds in Germany with a big button saying: You cannot sell this dvd again (which is against German law. Everything you can legally buy in Germany can be legally sold in Germany). Surly MS tried to circumvent reselling via ebay, but what I tried to explain is: even if the Chinese are in conflict with GPL in this case, it's not that big deal to judge them for. MS wasn't stopped by selling those dvds and the Chinese won't be stopped either.

Even IF they violate GPL you'll first have to make sure that China accepts the GPL as license and have to make sure that there are no Chinese laws securing them.

And I highly doubt that they provide source codes...

I don't know whether they do it but they also need to indicate that their software is licensed under the GPL and that every user has rights obtained by the GPL...

Which can only be proved by actually buying the software. You'll only have to deliver the parts of the original source code and a copy of the GPL to those that actually bought the software. And saying that you use parts of GPL software is afaik nice, but not necessary.

Regards

Skirnir

[hunuza]

Hm I'm not sure. If you for instance buy RedHat Linux afaik you receive a serial, code to use the version of the OS on one PC, just like any Windows OS, but still Red Hat delivers a lot of GPL copyrighted software. I haven't ever cared in how Red Hat does so, but I think there is somehow a way. A way which could also be used by the Chinese.

I think they also provide a bunch of software that is not licensed under GPLv2. As far as I know you can only install the GPLv2 parts of the software without that serial.

Yes definitely. But just one little hint, even worlds famous software giant Microsoft has sold Windows Vista dvds in Germany with a big button saying: You cannot sell this dvd again (which is against German law. Everything you can legally buy in Germany can be legally sold in Germany). Surly MS tried to circumvent reselling via ebay, but what I tried to explain is: even if the Chinese are in conflict with GPL in this case, it's not that big deal to judge them for. MS wasn't stopped by selling those dvds and the Chinese won't be stopped either.

Even IF they violate GPL you'll first have to make sure that China accepts the GPL as license and have to make sure that there are no Chinese laws securing them.

The problem is the following: if you do not accept GPL you have no right to modify or distribute the GPL software.

§9 of GPLv2:

However, nothing other than this License grants you permission to propagate or modify any covered work. These actions infringe copyright if you do not accept this License. Therefore, by modifying or propagating a covered work, you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so.

And saying that you use parts of GPL software is afaik nice, but not necessary.

§5 of GPLv2:

[...]

b) The work must carry prominent notices stating that it is released under this License and any conditions added under section 7. This requirement modifies the requirement in section 4 to “keep intact all notices”.

[...]

[VladimirMangos]

The problem is the following: if you do not accept GPL you have no right to modify or distribute the GPL software.

No so easy. Country laws can have explcitly declaration that conflicting with law parts of license/EULA can be not-appliable in country. So you can accept license and ignore related parts. As i know in Russia law (at lest old version, new from current year not read yet)

[Skirnir]

No so easy. Country laws can have explicitly declaration that conflicting with law parts of license/EULA can be not-appliable in country. So you can accept license and ignore related parts. As i know in Russia law (at lest old version, new from current year not read yet)

Yes I think thats right. Until a countrys court system validates a license (e.g. the GPL) it's just some written text.

And about that part of the GPL, your completely right: If you sell it, you have to say your using GPL code. I mistakenly was referring about this part:

I don't know whether they do it but they also need to indicate that their software is licensed under the GPL and that every user has rights obtained by the GPL...

to myself delivering the source code would be 'indicating' "that their software is licensed under the GPL". From my point of view I interpreted you meant "saying so explicitly on their web page" and I just don't think that's required. I this case "prominent notices" could mean anything, from a layer on the web page, a pop-up at program start up to a README file inside the binary folder. I'm sorry for misinterpretation.

Regards

Skirnir

[x0r]

this chinese people even worst than back old-days when wad selling his 'product' for 200$ for 6 month support,but this guy?3000$ o_0;

[Patman128]

They can charge whatever they want for service. They found their little niche market and they want to exploit it. All we need now is someone who offers support for only $2000! Good time to learn Chinese.

Like they said, if China doesn't honour GPL, there's not really anything you can do about it, except spread free mangos and put them out of business, or try and compete.

[ckegg]

Oh finally someone found and looked into this

I knew they were selling commercial version over year, or longer than that.

And there are actually "2" vendors doing this (two different forum).... I know one of their administrator

They are selling Trinity version and Mangos version, they restrict each version by limiting the maximum user per complied core. Therefore, yes, they are selling complied mangos/trinity, or selling Dedicated server with pre-installed mangos/trinity.

When I found out that my script posted on ScriptDev2 are implemented in their cores... I stopped my work on ScriptDev2. I also told them stop taking my scripts but they blame me that when I post them, I mean to share for free (GPL).

Well.... I read Chinese..... but I am not Chinese though.