What's going on?

[Jethrogibbs]

What's going on?

Since 8 days over commit on mangos. I hope this is only temporary and that mangos will continue for a long time.

[evilatwow]

Why do you think it's not temporary? There is no announcement suggesting otherwise

So relax, it's called holidays! (and a well earned one, if you ask me)

[xnxx10]

Maybe mangos team work on some big change

[Auntie Mangos]

We're effectively having a break to get some rest. No need to panic, we're no robots, and sometimes we need sleep, too.

[Jethrogibbs]

Of course I fully understand

[Unkle Nuke]

You'll get used to the ebb and flow of the MaNGOS dev team, Jethro. They do indeed take holidays from the project. Sometimes, it's just to relax and get away from the endless lines of code to avoid becoming burned out and losing interest. Other times, there are real life matters that must come before everything here.

Being a free, all-volunteer project means time is the most expensive and rarest of resources.

I do encourage you to learn as much as you can, so that you may help out. Eventually, you may even be able to keep things going when the others do need a rest.

[stfx]

Yeah, at expense of mangos - you don't even add pull requests for valid fixes - https://github.com/mangosR2/mangos/commit/1acae3e891a77720f4b70f9939e1ef1d8b75e804

Other than that fast and hacky development is fine but we wouldnt be that far if it had not been for proper code

[sart13]

you could take a look at the R2 project:

R2 _NOT_ a project. only custom fork of mangos project.

[Schmoozerd]

Let's be clear:

Git is especially designed to fork stuff and do own work on the own forks.

So I think that it is a good thing that there are dynamic forks out there.

However I can see the problems stfx noticed - using and especially developing for a custom fork goes to expense of the original project (in our case mangos/master)

I think we all could benefit if we try to figure ways to get more of the development "back" to mangos.

I know that there is no chance that the big boulders like "vehicles" are to be implemented on mangos/master only because there is a pull request.

However I do see very high chances for the many small patches (like a spell fix, or the commit stfx mentioned) that are implemented to custom forks - chances for fast review and fast commiting to mangos.

But there is one big problem (I noticed already with sd2 with which I am much more familiar):

Someone who doesn't know the fork cannot (directly) see which commits are a commit fitting for master, or rather a commit related to custom patches, or what they are done for actually!

And this is exactly where "pull commits" come in:

So my suggestion would be:

* Recreate your (actually this holds reasonable for many custom forks) repo on github that it is forked from mangos/mangos.git (Maybe this even can work with some admin changes)

* Add pull requests for the small patches that you guys think are reasonable for master

* Note in the pull-request basicly the same information you would post here on forums in a bug report or a patch submission

I think such a flow should help all of us quite well with a little amount of additional work for anyone.

[sart13]

your reasoning is very logical, but these proposals could be implemented if the development went into the master and custom forks in parallel, or even with a shift of 1-2 months of work. Unfortunately, case of deviations (by some lines) more than 2 years (mtmaps for example) such interaction difficult to realize ...

[cyberium]

Is MaNGOS devellopers are all aways?

Your reasonning will be fine Schmoozerd if MaNGOS have enought developpers.

But has i see if il only look "under review" section why there is so much post on it? These forum must be (by definition) more often empty... Patch must be applied or refused in reasonable time.

So this community seem to work to slow (due to not enought devellopers leader)

Keep core clean is an good reason. But with no improvement is too much price.

I don't see anymore any Vladimir, lynx3D, Ambal, NoFantasy, Neo2003, DasBlub commit??? Is all of these dev go away?

So if no enought dynamic here i understaind why fork R2 is created.

Iam litteraly flooded with update on trinitycore everyday. We are agree it's their choice to get "some spaghetti code and hack". Anyway only with more update trinity community keep their dev motivated.

So the question is, is there still enought dev who whant to continue improving MaNGOS?

Actually Stfx, Schmoozerd cannot handle all patch. Laise, SilverIce and Zergtmn are still present but occasionaly.

I understaind all priority (i have mine too "my familly, my job, and some films/game") but you must be honest with us about that.

[Schmoozerd]

Short intermezzo:

I have split a bunch of posts that didn't lead to nowwhere from this topic into the trash bin;

PLEASE do PM me if you think this is bad style of moderating!

So, what can I say (as one of the new green guys here)

* Interest in contributing is "currently" extremely low - this is ofc also a big reason for slow progress

* Silverice does much work, especially to redesigning movement related code - this unfortunately often ends in directions that don't work out, but take big amounts of time.

* Laise works on LFG - which also seems to be complicated and there is not much on which one can build.

We had some discussions about ways to make contributing for mangos (and sd2) more attractive, I tried my "icc project" on sd2 side, but only counted so far 2 ppl actually doing things there and at least 2 giving feedback that they like it.

Also there is discussion to add a "heap" branch where devs can stash commits with which they are not yet happy with.

As I wrote in the other topic - the main time killer is not writing code, but to discuss code and even more to discuss concepts.

Actually this is - in my view - the thing that splits between power contributors and developers. A dev must be able to discuss and argue about the code, and I see not many ppl around to do so.

Unfortunately because there are many ppl around whom I consider as smarter as me(in area of coding) - but without communication this leads to no good.

So back to my proposal of using more pull requests:

YES, I think this would be serious benefit, _especially_ because atm we are not many active developers.

Sure, the biggies won't get in faster with this. But the biggies are not the things that makes development look dynamic, nor are the biggies the real time killers.

It would be a huge benefit for all if the 3 line commits would be added to pull requests, maybe we could even make mangos policy in accepting less strict (either a spell fix is right or wrong, but this doesn't destroy our code in any serious ways)

Reviewing these then would be rather fast, and accepting might be just a click away.

But well, people are not interested in contributing in this way, so no use to come back to this point.

It is obviously too much to ask for that mangos clones would be named mangos forks on github to be able to add pull requests.

The thing that currently happens is, that some people write enourmous "all cool systems" and stuff, in which they _do_ have good stuff, but instead of adding a pull request for a 3 line change (which could be accepted fast) they seem to be more happy to wait until some time later a dev needs such a feature, and adds the same 3 line change, because then they are able to complain that they have done this months ago.

Not much fun to work in this

So, all in all:

Mangos devs exist, and are motivated to keep mangos going, but some more effort from community would be greatly appreciated - because doing work so that you are told that you are stupid because these things were done years ago already or that you are stupid because they were since long time being improved is really a killer for motivation.

[sart13]

Short intermezzo:

I have split a bunch of posts that didn't lead to nowwhere from this topic into the trash bin;

PLEASE do PM me if you think this is bad style of moderating!

...

Actually this is - in my view - the thing that splits between power contributors and developers. A dev must be able to discuss and argue about the code, and I see not many ppl around to do so.

I think that in future you will continue to communicate only with themselves. I do not know how you have taken, but according to our traditions (and laws) deleting or editing posts of other authors is unacceptable to any excuses - it's not moderating, it's censorship. and this is what you are doing here on the this and SD2 forum.

[cyberium]

It seems Rsa know coding but don't know what PM is... No offense its joke.

[Skirnir]

One of the few active developing members around is rsa. He modified his core, still provided a bunch of patch files, although many never were accepted. This way his core developed and can use things MaNGOS does not have. Seeing the threads at ru-mangos.ru no one was really interested in implementing things he developed into a clean core (not only the moderate changes, but also the more hackish commits). Long time ignoring many of his changes and now asking him to provide clean patches for MaNGOS master is for a non-participant a bit supercilious.

Obviously he is not as good in English as some others around, still he is commenting at this English speaking forum. From my point of view this shows he is caring about MaNGOS and I see his comments as “ask me or read my commits, no need to reinvent the wheel”. Although I understand, that his postings (maybe by the translation) sometimes seem rude.

From my opinion MaNGOS has to decide where to go and how to handle what forks did. Until then you have to accept if someone tells you that you reinvent the wheel. This also requires to decide as soon as possible.

Regards

Skirnir

[tibbi]

just keep going on with the icc project, as it looks promising. I personally know like 3-4 ppl who are following it except me. Such guide is surely needed, as its really hard to start learning scripting.

I will someday check my servers commits, and do some pull requests of stuff, which isnt that hacky, so it might get accepted.

[Schmoozerd]

Hmm, maybe very important points. At least I cannot tell what is happening on mangos.ru

The main problem is not that I am too lazy to use google translator, the problem is that I have absolutely no feeling on which posts/ threads I might be interested in doing so.

But sure, this is mostly my problem - this by the way would be another point that will become easier with adding pull requests.

the simple message "Here(LINK!) is something interesting" might indeed be very useful. All I am asking with my plea for pull requests is that this message is transported.

A short note on censoring (actually I think it might be worth to split this to another thread..):

No, I think I never deleted any message from you sart13 on the mangos forums.

(I removed a few posts from this thread here to the subforum called "trash-bin" which should be transparent for the posters in question)

@Skirnir - The point where I have a problem is that _sometimes_ (not even related to most stuff rsa does, because I know I could look into the fork sources) when reading "Did this nearly a month ago" I have the urge to write: "Then why didn't you tell, ****** ")

[sart13]

A short note on censoring (actually I think it might be worth to split this to another thread..):

No, I think I never deleted any message from you sart13 on the mangos forums.

Then you look for a rat. I started to look up their posts in this forum after the announcement of SmartPtr in section "Core modification" was removed in less than 8 hours after writing. After counting found that lost more than 20 stations, most of which contained the code or linking to it. Even after it was removed at least 5 posts.

SD2 Forum on the picture is even worse - old references to ICC code deleted at all.

PS also i search for some posts from Insider42 (AKA Kapatelb), available to me in the archive. I not find at least 4 patches at all. Joke?

[Electros]

does it is hard to get community work? show more activity on original mangos and scriptdev2 repositories, patch submittions and i think, it will take some attention of old and maybe new users. Now it is just, how to call... almost active community (1-2 commits per week or in 2 weeks).

anyway, i'll contribute this project as i can...

[tyrael]

what do I like very much is how guys that left mangos and now "work" for trinity core are 10 steps ahead of us in everything.. spells, features...scripts...even db... I can see that those ppl communicate and welcome anyone who is willing to give a strong hand...

As I look to rsa rep I can see an active man.. a man that NEEDS to be in mangos dev team.. a man that try to think things in a different way and not a communist and not friendly mangos type .. that one that u need to wait millions of years until a patch is in the repo... in this way EVERYONE WILL LOSE HIS INTEREST... even u Schmoozerd ...

I am not pro rsa and agains u or mangos... I am trying to make u see the point in this situation...

look now ... how many devs are online? ZERO... beside u... how many commits per day? ZERO...

The project that should make a wow server to look bl1zzl1ke as much as possible is ZERO walking forward....

someone should get in charge of the dev team and contact everyone..see what happend..etc..

A great community is build hard ..and can be distroied in a couple of months...

2 bad... mangos supose to be the best emulator out there for w0w... but it isn't .... maybe R2 fork is ... as I test it myself..and I am more than impressed... Even the db...look at udb.. a release after 2 months? WTF... look at ytdb... GOD repent America....

For now we are walking to FAIL...

Respect

[cyberium]

No fail if even only one develleper continue this project.

TrinityCore and R2 are another project with other priority/requierement. Not comparable. Can you compare R2 and TrinityCore? Why make R2 in place of contribute all to TrinityCore?

You know what is MaNGOS. Learning project only. Not for production. It's why i like the philosophy/rigor/severity of it's DEVs.

It's why olso MaNGOS is still considered like a base. Other are just fork with some good hack but some bad too.

Ex? hum "spell XXXX causing crash"? No problem make new condition like :

if (spell = XXXX) return;

Do you think this kind of patch pass underreview section?

We only need actual Dev to get back again. Loosing VladimirMangos and it's about 50% commit is very rude to MaNGOS community. Olso other Dev like Laise are working in backscene before release big patch (remember aura patch, Vmaps etc...)

We lack their answear in this topic.

Cheers all.

[tyrael]

by the way..where is vladimir?

[VladimirMangos]

I already answer at question in github notes. Period.

Thread go to one more useless threads pool with not helpful anything hysteric cries.

[cyberium]

Link?

Original question is What's going on about MaNGOS, no cries, not hysteric...

Still not any good answear (except some unconfirmed element by SchmooZerd)

So if you stop Vladimir, i have only one word for you.

Respect!

Iam your fan.

Thank you for your time here, it was a gift for any who understaind what you've done.

[TheLuda]

Private life is going on. That's pretty much it. Most of us are busy with work, etc. and have not a single minute left for MaNGOS.

What all of you should have learned by the time being here: whatever happens here, everyone can learn to submit stuff and do stuff. I always wonder why 90% of the community prefer waiting over becoming active. This is an issue we always suffered from *sigh*