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Site maintenance - 4th October 2010


Guest AuntieMangos

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What's wrong there? Consider the sheep dumb internet guy, who doesn't get whats wrong there. *stares at his screen*
Well the footer is so small and makes my eyes bleed. :( I guess that's my personal issue.
FF 3.6.10 Win/Lin/OSX: Dual Core 1.8GHz. No lagging at all. No JavaScript whatsoever except for wowhead tooltips here. Block it and see what happens :)
I've disabled js and all FF addons, still lags the same.

I've got my own IPB forum, so I've opened the most overloaded page of 30kb compressed (400kb uncompressed) html, and when I scroll rapidly through it trying to blow up my mouse I can only get FF to 15% CPU usage. A small scroll of the current page makes FF consume 25% CPU (1 core) and it lags. Really lags. IDK why. Probably an engine issue?

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit:

I've also tested other browsers on the same machine, scrolling through the current topic:

Opera 10.62 — almost no lags

Safari 5.02 — almost no lags

Google Chrome 6.0.472.63 — lags

IE 7 — no lags at all (what?)

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FluxBB was the one tool, which achieved a reasonable amount of points in all primary goals. Others failed horribly. Example? Convert all current content from vBulletin to IPB, phpBB, SMF. Waiting time ~ 40 minutes. Do the same with FluxBB, and you're done in 10 minutes.

Thanks for your summary. I'd be interesting to hear more about why you turned SMF down. The db conversion is a one time process, so shouldn't matter that much i guess.

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FF 3.6.10 Win/Lin/OSX: Dual Core 1.8GHz. No lagging at all. No JavaScript whatsoever except for wowhead tooltips here. Block it and see what happens :)
I've disabled js and all FF addons, still lags the same.

I've got my own IPB forum, so I've opened the most overloaded page of 30kb compressed (400kb uncompressed) html, and when I scroll rapidly through it trying to blow up my mouse I can only get FF to 15% CPU usage. A small scroll of the current page makes FF consume 25% CPU (1 core) and it lags. Really lags. IDK why. Probably an engine issue?

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit:

I've also tested other browsers on the same machine, scrolling through the current topic:

Opera 10.62 — almost no lags

Safari 5.02 — almost no lags

Google Chrome 6.0.472.63 — lags

IE 7 — no lags at all (what?)

I tested with:

Opera 10.70 build 9053 - works fine

Google Chrome 6.0.472.63 - lags

IE 8 - works fine

So I guess it's problem with Google Chrome, not forum engine.

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Please. Pretty please. If you're ever going to change the theme, pleeasee leave this one as an option. The old VBulletin theme _really_ sucked my desktop CPU (intel celeron 2.4GHz, ~2003) due to TONS of javascript, donation panel on the right side and all the fancy "nice" things. It always lagged my browser for ~10 seconds.

This new board is mostly JS-free, or at least it seems to be, since the lag went down to 1 second. So if you're ever going to add a windows-costy javascript pseudo-OS to the board, please leave somewhere an option to turn it off, think of us, poor non-hex-core CPU owners. :)

Thanks.

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@LordJZ Did you try Firefox 4 beta 6 ?
No' date=' I don't want to use a (not localized) development version.
FF 3.6.10 Win/Lin/OSX: Dual Core 1.8GHz. No lagging at all. No JavaScript whatsoever except for wowhead tooltips here. Block it and see what happens :)
I've disabled js and all FF addons, still lags the same.

I've got my own IPB forum, so I've opened the most overloaded page of 30kb compressed (400kb uncompressed) html, and when I scroll rapidly through it trying to blow up my mouse I can only get FF to 15% CPU usage. A small scroll of the current page makes FF consume 25% CPU (1 core) and it lags. Really lags. IDK why. Probably an engine issue?

Thanks for the feedback.

Edit:

I've also tested other browsers on the same machine, scrolling through the current topic:

Opera 10.62 — almost no lags

Safari 5.02 — almost no lags

Google Chrome 6.0.472.63 — lags

IE 7 — no lags at all (what?)

I tested with:

Opera 10.70 build 9053 - works fine

Google Chrome 6.0.472.63 - lags

IE 8 - works fine

So I guess it's problem with Google Chrome, not forum engine.

Test with FF.
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Could the way BBCode is handled be changed.. with the old forum we could use [ color="Olive" ] but now we have to use the hex value (not really a problem for future posts, but makes reading old posts harder)

Also can bold and color be parsed from within a code block

[b]this should be bold[/b]

I know code blocks should not need formatting, however in many guides that is used to emphasize a value which the user must notice/change

Just wanted to ask before I start rewriting the code in the guide I created, other than that the new forums seem fast enough.. although so did that last one but I'm also behind a caching proxy that cached all the static content and delivered it to my workstation across the 1gbps LAN (only time it was slow was when I flushed the proxy's cache)

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I do see what you mean, but if the regex is setup properly it should check for the opening AND closing tags meaning it would not see [ i ] as italic but only when both tags [ i ]...[/ i ] are present

also i just found these forums don't allow you to use the BBCode without a closing tag, so i had to add spaces to my example above. All well, if these forums aren't capable of doing this then there is no huge loss. I just thought it would be relatively simple to change

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Well, regarding BBCode changes: I would not add too much stuff. This boards parser is quite configurable, and defining allowed nesting is not hard but one of the results of nesting too many tags is that sooner or later, posts will break the parser. I've seen that with vBulletin. Don't ask how many posts I had to manually fix in the last two years.

Regarding AJAX stuff: I have no issues with AJAX, if used with a sense for necessity. But first things first, next on the list of fixes are:

  • syntax highlighting. I am re-enabling the [ code=... ] stuff soon, my tests yet have worked, only a beautiful style is missing for now.
  • better URLs. Readable stuff is nicer, we'll have that too very soon.
  • caching. Yup, might sound overrated, but helps if you do not have to ask the database to act for every request.

A bit more work is required to fix the issue of properly storing the read topics. This will probably take a few days, until I can work out a sane approach to fix that.

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  • Enjoyable code. If I am supposed to spend hours a week inside the code to fix all the tiny bits and pieces usually not seen, then it should be fun.

From what i understand fluxbb mods need you to edit fluxbb source code itself.

  • Awesome maintenance. God, please. Being a developer myself, I really never got the point what's wrong with all those forum projects/companies?! It's as if nobody really ever uses their own food.

maintenance with code edit inside code itself seems to be really hard to do. everytime there is a fluxbb update you will have to merge your code changes with main code changes hoping that nothing will break.

  • Speed. Too many features, to much marketing blurb and shizzle is what decreases speed. Read: mostly database performance, and template system performance.

to me it seems fluxbb does not have a real template system, at least they write in their todo for next major version "implement real template system and rewrite core".

Features are what make a forum software great though. the "thanks" feature for example allows easy differianciation between user and dev, etc. Since fluxbb doesnt have these features you will have to reimplement them yourself or live with less features.

Also from the errors i got here on forum major problem seems to be database. which hasnt that much to do with forum, does it? with old system i got error message could not connect to database, and now sometimes i get same error message.

what is your argumentation for fluxbb having good maintenance? i looked at it but didnt see any advantage over other board software that for example uses some sort of module system for extensions (fluxbb only has this in admin area)

what was the real performance hog with old forum software? so that fluxbb works better in that reguard?

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From what i understand fluxbb mods need you to edit fluxbb source code itself.

Which is true, but a simple branch merge in my git repository works very well here. I have a fork of their github repo, and all changes on a branch. No issue, since even with vBulletin or IPB you can not survive without editing the core code. Try it. Especially vBulletin required very, very many fixes on every update.

to me it seems fluxbb does not have a real template system, at least they write in their todo for next major version "implement real template system and rewrite core".

Who needs templating? A simple theme is fine. It's not about templates, its about being able to post and reply. We all are.

Features are what make a forum software great though. the "thanks" feature for example allows easy differianciation between user and dev, etc. Since fluxbb doesnt have these features you will have to reimplement them yourself or live with less features.

And features are what break forums. As mentioned above: due to the sheer amount of features in vBulletin I could not do a simple git merge for a vBulletin update.

Also from the errors i got here on forum major problem seems to be database. which hasnt that much to do with forum, does it?

The error is related to the database partly. If you have 50k requests a day and each fires of 40 database queries, the database will be under a bit of load. If you can reduce that to 8 queries per request, its an improvement. And with FluxBB I am able to nail it down to even less queries with a few tricks which I could not use on vBulletin.

For vBulletin the only option to keep it would have been a dedicated database server. And I think this is not a sign of quality for a piece of PHP code to require a dedicated DB server for a ~ 500MB database. Now with Flux the DB is down to 75MB and it works.

what was the real performance hog with old forum software? so that fluxbb works better in that reguard?

The combination of vBulletin and the load we have here :) Plus administration is not only the admin interface but also the database itself. Whats the benefit of vBulletins requiring me to use 200+ tables, when I can have it with only 20?

It's not all that simple, and you can be assured I spend a lot of time figuring out what works best. I have compared database load and other stuff in various test systems, and this change was made after several weeks of trying stuff.

With regards to the database error, this will go away soon, too. While the unnecessary load has been eliminated I plan to switch the database system as well. This will happen very soon, too.

All I can add, is: I spend many hours per week to keep these forums working, and make no changes with a light heart.

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