Not giving back?

[Alexander Blohmé]

Hello folks! Im new on this forum and just wanted to share my opinion on the "big guys" who are using this piece of nice software/technology.

It amazes me what the Nostalrius and Kronos dev teams have been able to put together of bug fixes, development, etc..

But why the hell are they not sharing this with the community that gave them the starting-blocks in the first place? Has this turned into a "Im the best server"-war?

[krill]

Unfortunately yes, greed and selfishness for money has turned most of the emulation community in a "I have a bigger dick" against other servers due to their popularity and the fact EVERYONE wants to run their own crap server for a quick buck.

We are strictly against public servers for numerous of reason and greed would be one of them. People will do it anyway.

All we can do is fight a losing battle for as long as possible.

[Olion]

greed and selfishness for money

This is a part of truth, but greatly oversimplified one.

Remember the education goal of the project? At a certain (very individual) level of experience the developer loses his motivation to do anything. The reasons vary from "I'll never understand that code" up to "how it all is simple and boring"; add to this personal interrelations within a team. I even do not mention here the changes in the dev's real life. In the worst case, the dev stoppes any activity maybe except chats with a good company reciting tales of his former glory Otherwise he tries to invent a new motivation, of which the most evident and eternal (but not the solely possible) one is money.

BTW I would not admire any project having ~1k open bugreports and claiming "many years of development" at the same time. No exceptions.

All we can do is fight a losing battle for as long as possible.

What a battle are you losing, your struggle for knowledge? Or, preventing any private server to run by deteriorating the code down to an unplayable state? Anyway, the only one makes advance who does what he thinks right to be done and gives a shit to the circumstances as well as to many other people (sounds cynically and trivial, sorry for that).

[Danator]

Well Nostalrius and Kronos fixed exactly nothing. Even the wrong distance between NPCs and players is wrong. There are even more bugs than in the standard mangoszero version. I dont know how they can put more bugs in the server and sell this as big step further. But at least Nostalrius is very good in making clips with machinima engines.

The best private classic server is a German server. They at least were able to fix this annoying wrong distance bug. But they are not really motivated too and they are no real players so they just have no clue.

But the best server I know is my server on my harddrive. I am no programmer but I already have the best server I know but only on my harddrive. I am no expert and I dont even know how to make a server for the internet but if I really want it I could do it because I am very intelligent and very motivated to create a good real WoW-Server.

All I know is that the guys who offer private servers for gamers are either not able or they just dont wanna fix anything. I study mangoszero for 6 months now and I already fixed hundreds of bugs. For example the punch cards in Gnomeregan are on my private server punchcards and not ore or whatever the english word for the wrong icons are.

It is kinda fun for me and indeed I learn something for example about SQL. I correct even mistakes in the sourcecode although I know almost nothing about C++. Only a few operators and if then else constructs. For example I correct several bugs in the sourcecode alone by changing certain if-expressions which were wrong. So actually it is possible to make an almost bugfree private server. But the guys or in my case the guy must be motivated to do this and of course he has to be intelligent and of course he should be a real player. Some of the comments in the sourcecode shows that also the programmers at least not all of them dont know much about WoW. I dont understand the code to be honest but I can see logical mistakes.

That is actually not normal I admit. I dont think that many humans with so less knowledge than me could do that. But I am no normal human. Whatever Nostalrius and Kronos are really bad servers. The best puplic server is a german server.

[Classicfreund]

Hi, i would like to put my opinion here too.

What i learned so far (i played on Nostalrius, Kronos, Feenix, Nefarian) is that there cant be nice people who are not greedy and selfish to be admins of WoW Private servers. Why? Because this game is not what a private person created. Its the creation of Blizzard, and only greedy/selfish people would like to attempt on such thing. I know they killed WoW and people would like to play it again and Corrupted people are hosting it with no intention fixing important bugs at all. There are bugs that affect our passion for this game and they never get priority. You can already see who is greedy and selfish if you see how they advertise their Server. Who would thank for 10.000 Facebook Likes? Also it is not even mention for what they are thanking. (Nostalrius). I sometimes think there are Monkeys at work.

Nostalrius even put their own ideas in the game. You dont want to see Alterac Valley, how they tried to force long AV's without making it blizzlike, because they dont seem to know what caused long AV's, this is so terrible. They made all the Elites immune to every CC and each of the Commanders and Lieutenants are doing 1200-1600 noncrits on people and everyone gets nearly two shotted, if not oneshotted (crushing crit). There is no challenge when you get resist or have a chance to protect yourself when you always get one shotted.

They dont even give references to what they implemented, also not even a reason, but asks the community for evidence if someone makes a bugreport. The best thing that can be done here is teach them to be a nice person, but they dont want that either -.-.

And what Admins/Server Staff like to show is that they are some important smart people who need to be listened to. They are acting as if they made this game, while the only reason this is put is everyone wants to play this version of WoW and the point of Devs is to fix, there is no other reason they can be interested in this. And then using words like "passion" "we love this game" are only protection for their greed/selfish desire. People are beeing abused since Feenix, i wonder how many actually loves to fix this game-.- I cant code, but i reported a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff are important, for example giving life to the zones by putting patrols in it, texts, zone-texts, but there isnt much of them in any of the servers, because there is no interest in passion of this game.

Also normal/good people would not work on this since hosting costs money and why would any normal person would work on fixing this game? it takes long.

I dont think hosting server costs 500-1000 Euroes. this is what Nostalrius and Feenix said. To make everybody think "wow! They are such great people that they do this for us!!!" I dont think it costs THIS much.

[antz]

A majority of the people here work on mangos on a daily basis

- Some like myself also do it while holding down a full time job and looking after a family

I can't say about the others on the team, but I work on mangos as a labour of love - I certainly don't expect fame or riches to come from it.

- What I do get from MaNGOS - it's fun (I do enjoy mangos and wow), i'm normally learning new things and the enjoyment that comes from helping others learn and improve themselves.

- Mangos itself has hosting costs and donations per month rarely meet the hosting costs.

But we continue doing this because we enjoy it and will continue to do so for as long as it remains fun.

The Ego's and selfishness of people over the last 7 years or so (both devs and users) has almost destroyed the wow Emu scene as it has caused so many of the pioneers who knew the systems so well to leave the scene forever, as well as some of the users.

- I myself quit the wow Emu scene for about 2 years after a savaging from a former senior dev here when I asked for help (he's now another projects problem )

As for giving stuff back. In the three years I've been at the helm of mangos, I am only aware of three projects offering back decent fixes to mangos:

- Project Silverpine (who later actually merged with mangos)

- Project Stormrage

- One other I can't mention

In summary, it's a shame that more don't pass back fixes - but it's the way of the world

[Classicfreund]

Hi, thanks for your input. In no way i was mentioning Devs of getmangos. I mainly thought about Nostalrius and Kronos. Feenix is dead and Nefarian ... i cant really say much to Nefarian.

And btw, does it mean that there is one server or two servers from Silverpine.. or is Rising Sun the only server from the core-mangos-team?

Like are there more servers that only has the fixes from the getmangos team ?

[Talendrys]

There are so much differences between mangos and a lot of privates now (Rel20 made a break I think) that it starts to be difficult for them to backport fixes (even if they try).

Nostalgeek is the most known french private for classic but they are also selfish and not really ready to work with others... same wars everywhere.

[madmax]

There are so much differences between mangos and a lot of privates now (Rel20 made a break I think) that it starts to be difficult for them to backport fixes (even if they try).

This is true to an extent, its not impossible but still hard to backport now, and will become even harder with every commit we make.

[Qlka]

This is true to an extent, its not impossible but still hard to backport now, and will become even harder with every commit we make.

Why is that so madmax? I thought that every private server out there is based on MaNGOS source at one way or another. Does this have anything to do with the hierarchy of coding?

Oh and about Nolstarius - I have no idea how they got to the place where they are now, but one I know for certain. By far it is the best private vanilla server I ever knew god damn't. And as far as I know they take no donations what so ever.

I dont think hosting server costs 500-1000 Euroes. this is what Nostalrius and Feenix said. To make everybody think "wow! They are such great people that they do this for us!!!" I dont think it costs THIS much.

I don't know how much server would cost that can host 10k people at the same time but I think it is quite damn expensive and in a matter of fact might hit 1k euro / month.

[Alexander Blohmé]

Well, atleast now they got exactly what they had coming to them. And NOW they decide to "open source" it??

It will be fun to see all the "fugly" hax comments in there