Roadmap

[Schmoozerd]

This thread should give a small overview, which major points are to be implemented in the near and not so near future.

If a feature is listed here, this does not mean, that it can be expected that it will be implemented anytime soon.

This should just be a rough roadmap, to collect the following:

- Some larger scale development goals

- Hints of cool features which are in development

- Important things that don't get the attention they deserve

==== Features for next milestone ====

* Dungeon Finder

==== Features in development ====

* Mmaps - was added to core

* Warden system

* Rewrite MovementHandling, especially due to limitations of MotionMaster

* Outdoor objective-based PvP

==== Wanted Features ====

* Vehicles (some patch development by community exists)

* NPCs on transports

* Aura stacking rewrite

* Better Pet Support

* Missing BGs, missing Arenas

* Add gameobject support to vmaps

==== Features open to discussion ====

* Hooks for Scripting Library for spells

Points that can be discussed

Ofc, things that are important and are missing here

Maybe we want to add User who show serious development interest to the topics they work with, maybe add links to development threads - which opinions do you have.

This thread is NOT to complain about missing spells, or crying about a single class and similar, for such things form _proper_ bug report for every _single_ bug in the appropriate forum

[sart13]

Joke. Your must true define problems, before stiky his. No "NPC on transport problem" exists, we has "Transport map" problem. "Better pet support" - may be semantic bad, need full rewrite pet support. "Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" has much more more negative aspects than positive ones.

Forget multithreading, calendar, etc...

[herrtrigger]

Joke. Your must true define problems, before stiky his. No "NPC on transport problem" exists, we has "Transport map" problem. "Better pet support" - may be semantic bad, need full rewrite pet support. "Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" has much more more negative aspects than positive ones.

Forget multithreading, calendar, etc...

Well I understand what you're refering to there, but imho, cut Schmoo some slack.

Schmoozerd is marathon-ing from Mangos to UDB to SD2 and back, and I personally think he's doing a lot of good things.

Also, this topic is very welcome: Giving followers some 'behind the scenes' info, and giving newcomers a brief overview aswell.

Not offending anyone, just my personal view, from here way in the back rows.

[Xfurry]

I think you forgot to add the World PvP system to the "Wanted Features". This patch is still under development, event if this process is quite slow.

Hopefully we'll be able to come with a beta version somewhere in Q1 next year.

[Forgotten]

"Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" has much more more negative aspects than positive ones.

What negative aspects? Currently we have tons of custom code in dummy, proc aura handlers which looks not nice

[sart13]

"Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" has much more more negative aspects than positive ones.

What negative aspects? Currently we have tons of custom code in dummy, proc aura handlers which looks not nice

I regularly look at these "tons of custom code". 90% of it is done without any problems in the usual way (by writing to standard spelleffects hooks), the remaining 10% - editing the database. TC spellscripts basically camouflage their ignorance or writing, or simply unwillingness to understand the mechanics of action. and sometimes (but this is quite funny) - to workaround core bugs.

for fun look at the chain spellscripts to priest shadowfiend (recently removed), as well as in R2. 'll laugh for a long time.

[shlainn]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" moving the "tons of custom code in dummy, proc aura handlers which looks not nice" from core to the scripting library, which is also not nice?

sart13, I happen to agree with you that the first step to fix a problem is to exactly define it. So, if you can find some time, could you point out in detail the limitations of the current Pet system somewhere? I, personally, would greatly appreciate this.

Shlainn

[sart13]

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "Hooks for Scripting Library for spells" moving the "tons of custom code in dummy, proc aura handlers which looks not nice" from core to the scripting library, which is also not nice?

no. "tons of code" be moved from one part of core to another part. aso heavy grow in size (and possible bugs count).

sart13, I happen to agree with you that the first step to fix a problem is to exactly define it. So, if you can find some time, could you point out in detail the limitations of the current Pet system somewhere? I, personally, would greatly appreciate this.

Shlainn

i publish my version of pets_rewrite over year ago, but his require much more rewrite. your may try this (and also over 8mb of other changes) in R2. including EOA.

[sart13]

As you may imagine, sifting through 8MB of changes is... tiresome. So, please tell me like I'm three years old, hat's wrong with the pet system? We want to learn, you know...

1. pet's divided on hunter_pet, guardian_pet and some other. bad work...

2. no support for multipet.

3. no support for scaling.

4. bad support for spawnpoint detect.

5. no support for pet dualspec

6. -%- pet talent reset

7 -%- diminishing, expertize, hit, attackspeed (~14 subsystems summary)

8. -%- for normal start stats in DB

9. Pets spelldamage maked over badly hack

sufficient? i may count much more...

PS some of this systems impossible implement without big rewrite pet/spell/unit system.

[tyrael]

also u can add

- Extend Creature Linking patch to guid

[Unkle Nuke]

I'm not sure if it's practical in asking this, but could the related modules also be listed with each feature that is a work-in-progress or still needs to be implemented?

By this I mean listing the .cpp modules and mention of related database or scripting elements as a means of offering those willing to attempt working upon these features a starting place to look into the code base.

[michalpolko]

Are those "hooks for scripting library for spells" really something like those weird classes of scripts for spells in tc2?

I don't know if this can truly be better than handling spells in core, grouped by their effects... It would just spread the code and make things less clear.

About the list...

Pets rewriting... The biggest problems are stats and multipets. Stats bug is the easiest to fix Scaling auras are not used (at least not all of them). We need formulae and list of scaling auras and use them, thats all.

Aura stacking is not a big issue, needs only checking of groups of auras by auratypes and like 1 - 2 additional functions for handling that.

But rules of dividing the aura stacking groups is the real big issue for mangos, because "exceptions code" aka HACKZ is not approvable and some spell attributes must be found in dbc or something as stupid as this. ;P Again, playing a researcher comes into the topic...

For me a true milestone was pathfinding/mmaps and a big applaud for that to all the authors and contributors.

Next true milestones would be: general support for checking for GameObjects in Line of Sight for spells and yes, VEHICLES!

Dungeon Finder or Wintergrasp more like features.

Oh and handling movement/animations of creatures like on retail servers would also be a really big step forward with all recent movement changes.

[tim]

For me a true milestone was pathfinding/mmaps and a big applaud for that to all the authors and contributors.

I dont see any changes under the code accepted section that hit pathfinding/mmaps and i dont have to extract any new maps.

So pathfinding/mmaps is done and is incoming into master Branch this days or did you just write "was" instead of "is" ?

[sart13]

now no mmaps in mangos, but mmaps almost full ready to implement in master.

[lillecarl]

now no mmaps in mangos, but mmaps almost full ready to implement in master.

Yeah, i think mmaps are ready to be implented into master.... I mean we will never get 100% correct mmaps anyways, so either we import them or we ditch them forever

[tyrael]

ok so far with the talk... Schomooze can u tell us pls which patch do u look forward to start implementing it this year?

I am sure that u wish to acomplish a milestone this year and implement as much as possible.

Now that our friend kid10 started vehicles, Xfurry promised that when he will have time he will continue his work to world pvp system... and I suggest to contact cyberium to check the state of the patch and why not if he plans to finish it that would be awesome for us.

Oh, and don't forget mmaps. If core changes to much it would be bad to wait for someone to update it.... we might lose all that great work...

Ppl... let's not repeat the past mistakes with great patches under review section for years!

Let's start with a fresh new mentality...

And yes, if mangos want more developers and ppl interested in this project I suggest to implement as much as possible new things as we know many ppl choose TC because they have a lot of features implemented. Ppl don't care if those features are implemented in hack way or workaround...

And why not, mangos devs need peace with rsa(aka sart13) and his followers, and start together filling this master up... why not make them devs also and start working together...

I guess many of us are just bored to see only Schomoozed and Xfurry, Stfx and sometimes SilverIce to work on something... If Vladimir, Neo,NTSC, and all other quited it's their decision... We need fresh minds... fresh ideas... fresh developers... and in my vision by seeing how mangosr2 team working as u guys work, there is only one option.. unite...

Create 2 master branches..one with mangos coding style and one with custom stuff... we need to be flexible...

More can be said, but the main idea was said.

Respect and pls start working together.

Think of SDB in past when it was merged... when it merged it boosted the db potential a lot... both teams devs... there war frequent updates and the db advanced very fast in power.

[evilatwow]

Ppl don't care if those features are implemented in hack way or workaround...

Yes we do!! So speak for yourself please

I guess many of us are just bored to see only Schomoozed and Xfurry, Stfx and sometimes SilverIce to work on something...

So, what's keeping you to get started then?

'We must do something' is the unanimous refrain.

'You begin' is the deadening refrain.

[tyrael]

Ppl don't care if those features are implemented in hack way or workaround...

Yes we do!! So speak for yourself please

I guess many of us are just bored to see only Schomoozed and Xfurry, Stfx and sometimes SilverIce to work on something...

So, what's keeping you to get started then?.

'We must do something' is the unanimous refrain.

'You begin' is the deadening refrain.

maybe u are one of those who cares about how code is implemented... I care 2... I don't use tc at all...

But in others minds it's better to have something than nothing...

For example mangos clean with sd2 clean.... it's playable in a decent way only for the pretbc and tbc content...the e wotlk sucks.

What is keeping me to get started?

Well my friend I can start a private repo anytime or maybe I have one... the point is not in that if u are able to understand.. the main idea of my post is about the main repo only...

It's a shame to see public repos like mangosr2 having so many devs and so much work done ahead of master repo of mangosproject itself...

How that happend? for the same reason tc appeared... to strict in "that is not mangos way" and this project got to the point of "there will be no way" ...

And yes that is the 'We must do something' in mangosr2 or tc case...they did... something better...

Mangos didn't lost its developers only, but the interest 2 for many ppl that could help this project a lot...

And no.. I don't blame anyone specific... just the project... it needs to be more flexible...

That is the way real life goes 2...be flexible and win or strict and lose.... the correct word is 'adapt' ... and this is what mangos should do in my opinion...

I hope I am not disrespectful in any of my affirmation if I am pls forgive me...

The last thing I want to add is this: No matter how mangos will go... I will stick with it until the end... and in my eyes Schomoozed is the head leader of this project... If he say that this project must go this way than I will obey it.

to be more clear 'THIS IS MY OPINION'...

who doesn't like it it's his problem..

my 2 cents...

Respect

[Unkle Nuke]

It can get frustrating to see so many other projects forked from MaNGOS leaping ahead with dozens of commits being made every day and features implemented that are still missing here.

On the other hand, you have to ask yourself... If MaNGOS is so bad, then why have other projects like Trinity Core, MaNGOSR2, and hundreds of others based their custom cores upon the MaNGOS sources? I wonder where they would be if MaNGOS disappeared?

There are two types of people that usually take part in the MaNGOS community. Those who want to learn and those who just want to play retail WoW for free. I find that those who cry the loudest about missing features and lack of patches being developed or accepted tend to fall into the latter category. We sorely need more of the kind that want to learn!

If you want to hack together patches and implement features by whatever means, then go join one of the other projects. If you want to learn every last screw and bolt that makes WoW work as it should, then you join in here and start learning how to code patches according to the core devs' tougher standards.

MaNGOS has always stated it is a learning project. This means learning not just how things work, but [em]why[/em] they must work. You cannot learn these things properly if you use incorrect methods. This means it can take a long time to figure out how certain features are handled by the client so the server can then respond in kind. It's not as if we're provided with full documentation by the game's publisher.

If you want to see patches accepted more quickly into the core, keep in mind two things:

1. There just aren't enough core devs to review every patch immediately and still have time to work on their code while dealing with the needs and responsibilities of real life.
   
2. Many patch contributors do not follow-up on or maintain their work, leaving it abandoned. You cannot realistically expect to just simply say "Here's my patch. I'm done.". It must be maintained to keep current with core changes. Otherwise, a core dev will take one glance at an abandoned patch and remind themselves they have better things to do with their time than to update and fix code about which nobody else seems to care.
   

How about you try this: Adopt A Patch. Go into the under review section and pick a submitted patch that's been abandoned. Fix it up, keep it maintained, and comply with coding standards so the core devs can then review it more quickly. Realize that it may still take time, especially if your patch relies on another feature that has not yet been implemented or has missing data. Many patch contributors think waiting months for review is ridiculous and don't want to spend all that time maintaining a patch. Keep in mind that many core devs, past and present, have been working on and maintaining the entire core for years.

Some devs from the other projects do the decent thing and contribute their fixes back to MaNGOS, but the majority keep their code exclusive to their cores, for various reasons. The end result is a fracturing and diminishing of the community as a whole, which can only ensure its eventual demise. Then none of us will have this gift so freely given by so few.

This community, like so many others, is only as good as what we all put back into it. This means getting involved and taking matters into your own hands to build a home that will endure.

That said, let us try to keep in mind that Schmoozerd intended this thread to be about future development of MaNGOS features. Instead, it has become a debate on MaNGOS versus the other forks and why we're not more like them. This thread, and the entire forums, could use more thoughtful, constructive ideas and see far less trolling from members of the "Fuck You MaNGOS!" club.

[tyrael]

Schoomozed cut off the list mmaps

Get to the next:D Warden

Respect

[Xfurry]

The warden is a controversial feature. I think the next one should be either dungeon finder or outdoor pvp.

[terrorio]

Rewrite of MovementHandling would be nice aswell, it will give a big boost to the complete blizzlike feeling.

[tyrael]

I agree with xfurry, but thinking of vehicles support just fills my heart with joy... this would help a lot in scripting..

Also npc on transports would be a very very nice addition, as well of boosting the blizzlike feeling

[sjizzle]

Indeed, movementHandling is a big issue I think within MaNGOS. If that can be rewritten, it has a MAJOR effort. Other cores already have it.

This will be great for Creature formations in ALL dungeons and RAIDS which is a BIG improvement in my opinion because alot of gamers are mainly doin raids/dungeons/battlegrounds. All these are way more improved with creature formation/ better MovementHandling.

[tyrael]

well than, it surely need an improvement to creature linking.. I mean guids for creature linking system